I have a question on the subject of carrying in vehicles and the law.
I don't wear belts, ever. Hence, I use an "inside the pants" clip-style holster for my carry gun (Sig P220 .45). But it is not comfortable to drive (especially a sports car with bucket seats) while wearing the gun this way, so I typically put it in the glovebox or console while I am driving. I will also sometimes leave it there while going into, say, a restaurant that serves alcohol (as most of us know, carrying concealed is prohibited in such establishments in Va., even if you are not drinking).
Here's the dilemma: A friend advises me that as far as the law is concerned, having the gun in the glovebox opens me to a felony charge, even if I have a CC permit.
If so, what reasonable (legal) course of actions should one take if one gets pulled over for speeding - or just rolls up on one of those "license check" (or "sobriety") checkpoints?
It seems foolish to tell the cop, " I have a permit and my gun is in the glovebox" - and trust that he won't seize the opportunity to ruin my life up over a ridiculous (but technically "lawful") charge.
The only viable option, if a stop is imminent, is to - at minimum - get the gun out from the glovebox and lay it on the seat or quickly stuff it back in my holster in my pants. Which means the cop may see me rooting around in the car just prior to the stop - which will probably make him nervous and increase the chances of something going very awry (for me). But I'd rather risk that - knowing I'm at least "legal" with the gun back in my pants or in plain view - than risk the felony bust for having the gun in the glovebox.
Any thoughts/comment on this? Is it in fact true that it' illegal to have your gun in the glovebox or console, etc. - even if you have a CC permit?
Sailorcurt's Response:
***Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice, nor am I speaking for VCDL as an organization. I'm simply giving my own personal opinion.***
Virginia Law is not entirely clear on this subject as far as I'm concerned. The subject of CHP holders carrying their guns in the glove box rather than on their person is simply not addressed. Here's the information on the issue form the Virginia State Police Web Site:
Based on the statute and decisions rendered by the Supreme Court, a weapon is considered to be concealed at any time it is placed in a location as to be within reach of the person, without the person being required to make an overt act to retrieve such weapon, when such weapon is hidden from common observation. Placing a weapon under the seat, on the seat hidden from common observation, or at any location from which the weapon can readily be retrieved is considered to be concealed. A person carrying a weapon in the unlocked glove compartment of an automobile, if the person does not have a permit or otherwise fall within any statutory exemption, is a violation of § 18.2-308(A), unless some particular fact or circumstance renders the weapon inaccessible.
In other words, a loaded gun in an unlocked glove box or console would be considered carrying a concealed weapon. However, if you have a concealed handgun permit, this seems to be perfectly fine. The obvious caveat to that in my mind is this: what if there is a passenger in the car that does NOT have a concealed handgun permit? Could they be charged with carrying a concealed weapon since the firearm in an unlocked glove box is also accessible to them? My guess would be "yes".
That's something I'd be very concerned about if I had a passenger in the car.
Personally, I don't recommend putting a loaded gun in the glove box or console regardless of the legalities for a couple of reasons:
1. A loaded gun loose in the glove box could easily get tangled up in other objects in the glove box, could have a safety disengaged and/or something catch on the trigger. This could easily result in a negligent discharge either while driving if the gun is bouncing around, or when retrieving the gun from the box.
2. Negligent discharges inevitably occur when handling the firearm. My personal view is treat your gun like your socks: put it on when you get dressed in the morning, take it off when you get undressed at night, otherwise, leave it the heck alone. The less handling of a loaded firearm that occurs, the less chance of a negligent discharge.
3. If you really needed it while in your car, would you be able to get to it and employ it effectively from the glove box?
In my humble opinion, if your mode of carry doesn't work for you when performing a common task that you are generally required to do several times a day for various lengths of times...like...for example...driving your car...you should probably give some thought to finding a more effective mode of carry.
Finally: I would say that if you are in the process of getting pulled over, fumbling frantically in the glove box and pulling out a gun is probably not a good idea, even if you haven't come to a stop yet. If the cop sees it, he's going to be justifiably wary of approaching your car and you may find the interaction to become less than civil very quickly.
If you are going to keep your gun in the glove box, I'd say find a different place for your documentation so that you don't have to get into the glove box to get it. I have one of those pouches on my visor that I keep my paperwork in, even though I don't carry anything in my glove box that a cop would be concerned about. I just find it more convenient that way.
The Police cannot search your car without probable cause, your consent or a warrant. If your gun is in the glovebox, I'd suggest just leaving it there. I wouldn't mention it to the cop unless he specifically asks or if you decide to consent to a search for some reason (something that I'd never do).
Readers with other comments or ideas are more than welcome to chime in in the comments.